🪴Cultivating purpose and intention with Nana aba Duncan

Nana aba Duncan is the first Carty Chair in Journalism, Diversity and Inclusion Studies at Carleton University’s School of Journalism and Communication, where she’s reshaping journalism training to inspire empathetic and inclusive coverage, as well as equitable and ethical newsrooms. She teaches courses on journalism and belonging, podcasting, and the basics of reporting.

Beyond academia, Nana aba serves as the executive director of Media Girlfriends, a podcast production company she cofounded with Garvia Bailey and Hannah Sung.

And on top of that, she’s the founder and director of the Mary Ann Shadd Cary Centre for Journalism and Belonging, where she leads research focused on transforming journalism education and practice. Her work includes “Reporting in Black Communities” and “The Black Journalist and Media Worker Experience.”

We talk about her path to journalism, the information gap on Black representation in Canadian news, and the importance of setting a clear intention in journalism work. She also discusses her research on Black journalists' experiences, and she shares some inclusive practices for journalists and media workers.

Q: I wanted to start with how you became a journalist.

Nana aba Duncan: I started as a journalist when someone took a chance on me at CBC Radio. I had gotten my degree about a year or so before, but for about five years, I was not working in the industry. It was public relations and marketing and that kind of stuff. Then someone I knew, who I had worked with at a newspaper where I was selling ads, maybe writing a couple of articles, but mainly selling ads, needed a person on a show called "Go" with Brent Banbury. They had a position called Contest Girl at the time. It was a very binary position, and I was not Contest Girl; I was Contest Girl Nana at the time. I wasn't Nana, but I was Nana at the time. I eventually forced everyone to say my name the way my mother calls me, but back then, it was Nana.

I never left after that position. I just had a lot of meetings, knocked on a lot of doors, pitched a lot of things, and eventually, my career moved forward from there.

Q: So you studied journalism but worked for five years in PR, marketing, and advertising?

Nana aba Duncan: I did. I got a master's in journalism at Western University and couldn't find work.

It was a scholarship from the IDRC. At the time, they had their inaugural journalism scholarship. It was $20,000. I got that, and you could go to a developing country of your choice. I went to Ghana, where I was born, and worked with the Ghana Broadcasting Corporation. So, I was working in journalism for the very first year after I got my degree.

Then, I ended up working with Journalists for Human Rights as a country director for Ghana. My father died about six months into that job, and I came back to Canada. When I came back, it was like, "Oh my gosh, any job, can I work somewhere?" I worked in PR, at the makeup counter at the Bay down at Queen and Yonge for some time.

I just had jobs. I was just working. Then, the call from CBC came.

Q: The call from CBC just came out of the blue?

Nana aba Duncan: No, it did not. It was most certainly not out of the blue. It was a person I had already worked with at a different job who happened to now work at CBC. They were looking for a person to fill a certain position. It was a fun game show kind of thing, and they needed an extroverted person to come in and get advice from a comedian.

It was some kind of skit, but that opportunity meant I had to walk into the building. When I got to the building after that experience, I took the producer aside—David Carroll, if you're listening, thank you so much. I thanked you already, but I'm thanking you again. He was gracious enough to have a meeting with me. He didn't have any kind of job or anything, but later on, he remembered me when they needed someone for their show and asked me if I wanted to.

And I did. After I auditioned, I got the part. I had to be on air. I asked a question on "Go" with Brent Bambury. Then, I would mail people their go bags, which was just like swag. They just had to answer some ridiculous question on air.

That was all I had to do. It was a five-minute thing that I was on air doing, but I was like, "Y'all don't know what you all just did, I’m never leaving!" I mean, I did eventually leave, but only after 14 or 15 years.

Q: Wow. Holy moly. With my other interviews with Black journalists, it's starting to seem like a theme that they say someone gave them a chance. It took knowing somebody who said, "Oh, what about this person? I know who they are." And I know this is kind of how things go where people don't just get jobs. They get jobs if they know someone, right? They met someone, and then whoever is around that table when hiring happens says, "Oh, I know that person, they're reliable and talented," and there's hundreds of other people applying for that one job who don't have someone that they know. It seems like, I don't know, why am I only hearing from people of colour?

Nana aba Duncan: How many white people are you talking to? Let's talk about that. It's a numbers thing. We could talk about the statistics, but I think what you're talking about still holds where, in general, yes, in the industry, if you know people, we talk about it all the time, and it's not just Black people or people of colour who talk about the industry in this way. If you know somebody, that's going to help you. But I do think there is a different quality when you're Black because the bar is higher for us in terms of where your talent is. I mean, you know what that is. You know what that's about because, I mean, your whole thing is called Twice As Good, right?

So you understand that wherever we get, it's like, you've got to show your worth in really big ways in order for people to see what it is that you have to offer. I'm just always glad that people have seen what I have to offer. I mean, I can get really loud about it sometimes.

But CBC was, for the most part, brilliant. It was beautiful. I love the people at CBC.

Q: I did some research on the reporting of diversity statistics in newsrooms. It's been an uphill battle since the seventies, starting in the States and continuing to this day in Canada and the United States. Newsrooms just don't want to give up their right to say, "This is how many women we have. This is how many people identify as Black or queer or whatever." They don't want to give that up. They feel quite confident in refusing to give that up.

Nana aba Duncan: Yeah, it's true. My thought to that is, that's silly. This is silly. We all know that the numbers are bad. Let's just have the numbers so we can make it better. We all know it's going to be embarrassing. It's fine. It's bad. Okay, great. It's bad. But how bad is it? Let's go and make those changes. Don't be embarrassed. Don't be embarrassed that you're mostly white. It's fine. We know that's true. It's fine.

Q: That's one of the reasons I was so inspired by your work and the work that you do today. There is a lack of statistics and studies. Why couldn't you do that? It's just because there's discomfort around talking about something that might reveal systemic racism, which a lot of us have already accepted and agreed exists. Your work really helps that problem, helps fill that gap. Can you tell me a little bit about your reasoning for all the research that you're doing?

Nana aba Duncan: Yeah. So, the Canadian Association of Journalists has done a diversity survey for the past few years. I think they're in their fourth year now. And we can talk about what we've learned, what they might be missing, or what can be better. But I'm grateful that the surveys are being done.

What I'm interested in is adding nuance to some of that research. So we don't have anything in this country that talks about the number of Black journalists, for example, or what their experiences have been, or the state of their mental health as they've been doing their jobs.

That's actually what I'm extremely interested in. I'm extremely interested in it because of my own experience. So, the research that I'm doing—I have two research projects going on right now. One is "Reporting in Black Communities," which I'll discuss in a minute, and the other is "The Black Journalist and Media Worker Experience."

And that one is specifically a survey in which I'm asking questions of Black journalists on how, you know, why they got into journalism, what their experiences have been, whether or not they have experienced any discrimination, how things went down at their work after George Floyd was murdered, for example—that's something I'm extremely interested in—and where they feel things are at now.

What I find from that will feed into "Reporting in Black Communities." "Reporting in Black Communities" is meant to be, at the end, a guide about how to report in and around Black communities in Canada. And it's going to be a free resource that will be available to all, and it is aimed at journalists and journalism educators.

So essentially, that will be a website, a guide, and then some teaching modules and potentially workshops. I'm doing that work with Eternity Martis. This was her idea. She teaches a course called "Reporting in Black Communities" at Toronto Metropolitan University. And in this project, what we're trying to do is actually go to the stakeholders around reporting in Black communities.

So first, it is Black community members. So we're going to Toronto, Halifax, Edmonton, and Montreal. And we want to talk to Black people about how they perceive the way that they've been presented in news media. And we're looking at anyone who is English or French and over 18 years old.

And you know, you have interest in the news or you follow the news in any way. And the kinds of questions that we're asking are, you know, what is your relationship to the news? Do you trust journalists? Have you witnessed any stereotypes in journalism or in the news? What are those stereotypes? Do you believe that the news has an effect on your life? Does it influence the way that you access healthcare, for example? Do you think it influences how you relate to people out in the world or finding work?

So those are the kinds of questions that we're asking because if we can get those answers, then we may be able to come up with a guide that helps to mitigate the harms that have come to communities. We know that in the past, Black communities have spoken out about how they are presented in the news. And we want to change that.

We also have seen how news outlets have badly presented Black people, and we want to change that. There are people in Canada who are not Black who are very interested in doing the work. They're very interested. They want to change things just as much as we do. So we're going to talk to them. We're going to talk to non-Black journalists and find out what they need, find out maybe the mistakes that they've made, the things that they're embarrassed about, the things that they'd like to do. As well, we're going to talk to the newsroom leaders. What has happened in their editorial conversations that they wish they could change? What do they think is the biggest gap that they have when it comes to Black people? If they don't know any Black people, how can we expect them to do their job well? What do they now need to do? How can they support, and this is the big piece for me personally, how can they support Black community members who are working in their newsrooms?

Something I always say is that, in the course of my classes, I find when we have these conversations that we have to recognize that while individuals cannot speak for the whole, if I am Black and I'm the only Black person in your newsroom, and I tell you that there's something happening in my community, who is the expert?

Who's the expert? Is it you, or is it me? Or if you don't want to call me an expert, who is knowledgeable about the Black experience? It's me. So listen to me. Even if I'm young, open your ears and listen to me. It doesn't mean that you don't ask questions about my pitch. It doesn't mean that you don't make it go through the same kind of rigour that you would of any story, but it does mean that you have to hear that it might be a story.

And we have to question, it makes us question who the audience is, who folks believe the audience is.

I'm gonna tell you a story. Like, I had a really angry moment sometime after George Floyd was murdered.

And I remember that, I cannot tell you exactly when it happened. But I remember having this thought to myself, "Oh my God. Whenever we think about the listener, at no point have I ever thought of my mother, and my mother is a listener." Why did I never think of my mother or my aunties who listen as the listener? The listener was never anyone who looked like my parents or my family or Black people at all. I never thought the listener being Black, and never. And at some point, I started to do it deliberately. Like, it had to be conscious. It was intentional. And I think that's kind of where this mindfulness comes in. I had to be quite intentional about thinking that the listener might be someone who's not white.

I remember being so angry that just this system has taught me in a way that I just never considered myself. And no one actually said it. It's not like people said, "Oh no, don't consider yourself."

Q: There are unspoken messages that we receive through our environment, of course, because you're also trying to survive in a kind of environment. And it's like nobody has time. I mean, you're always trying to fit your ideas in while someone has time. I think one of the problems with journalism is this 24/7 cycle where you have to write a story almost every day. So you don't get a chance to slow down and think, "I wonder who else might be reading this story." You know, you're just like, "Get it out now."

Nana aba Duncan: Yes. But if you teach yourself to, and as you are, before you get into that position, for example, with instructors or teachers, professors like me, my job is to, when you're actually learning how to do journalism, to think about that naturally, so that when you get to the 24-hour cycle, you're thinking about who is reading this, and the circle of who your audience is, that you're thinking of things inclusively in that moment naturally or reflexively. I think that's probably a better word.

I just see that as my job. You know, that's what I'm supposed to do. And folks who are already in the game, they're trying to learn that. They're trying to learn it.

But I'm, you know, I've had moments myself where you're just like, you need to make something, you need to do something very quickly, and inclusion is not high on that list. It is, get it out. That's what's up. It's get it out. Get it out.

Q: That's why I think the guidelines are going to be so hugely helpful. I mean, how amazing would that be for people to be able to pull up these guidelines, especially if they become an industry standard where people can, you know, one recommendation that I assume would be in it—and I don't know, but would hope that there's something about, you know, when it comes to community and extracting stories from communities—is to please come again. And like, if there's a shooting in that community, show up when they have the fundraising cookout, you know, show up when they're honouring their young learners who traveled and started businesses and things like that.

Nana aba Duncan: I would go further to say, like, go now. Like, what's happening there now? Don't wait for something bad that feeds into whatever idea that you have, which comes from something we've all been taught. Like, we all watched the same stuff. The racism that you were taught, I was taught it too. So, just go before. Just go now, go and see what's up. Go to the area that you think is "bad," just go there. I think that's something that I can add as part of my job too, is to suggest it to the students who are learning.

Q: I believe there are certain processes or practices that can help with mindfulness, which is always on my mind. Mindfulness involves stopping, slowing down, contemplating, and reconsidering. It's about intention—what's my purpose? There are actually step-by-step practices you can follow to cultivate a mind that is curious and somewhat neutral. I'm not saying objective, because I think that's a myth, but neutral and non-judging.

Nana aba Duncan: Absolutely. And you can add it to the things that you already do. For example, often in a pitch, you have to say, "What is the story about? Why does this matter now? Who do you want to talk to?" We can also add questions like, "Who is this story for?" and another question, "Who might I be leaving out right now?"

When you look at that answer, you can ask, "How can I add that person back in?" It’s a process thing. It’s totally a process thing.

I’m reminded of an activity and assignment I do for my students called the Journalism Manifesto. It's an activity in which they have to engage in intention. First, you're led to think about your place in this world, what privileges you have and what you don't. For example, with me, I might be led to think about how I have two degrees, I am non-disabled, and I’m also a Black person, specifically a Black woman. So I’m thinking about all these things.

In this activity, I ask people to think about the kind of journalist they want to be. What kind of journalist do you want to be? What does that person look like? What adjectives would you use to describe them? Then, I ask people to write their journalism manifesto—a set of five to seven sentences that will keep you grounded as you go forth in your career.

When I did mine, it varied each time, but one of mine was that I will remain curious. Another one was that I will pause when I hear something from someone that doesn’t fit my worldview. Pause. I will pause. Pausing makes me listen to them. Saying all these things doesn’t mean that I’ll do it every time, but at least taking a moment at some time in your career to sit down and think about the kind of journalist you want to be can help with intentionality later on. At least that’s what I’m hoping. The students said they appreciate doing that.

Q: I know I would have. Actually, I’m going to do it now. One of my favorite sayings from social media is, "We don’t have to be perfectionists. We just have to be improvenists." So you just get a little bit better every day. What I like about the idea of having practices to follow, like having a document laid out, is that you can improve every day. That doesn’t mean you do it right every single time or perfectly. It’s not like you check this manifesto every day before you hit submit on an email or an article draft. It’s that you’re cultivating your mind. Your mind is a garden, and you’re trying to cultivate the soil so that good things can grow.

You’re trying to create a space where your mind can remain curious and open because people don’t learn when they’re pressed against a brick wall. It’s just not going to happen. It’s physically impossible, I think.

Nana aba Duncan: No, but if you’ve learned some things beforehand and made them part of your breathing or your process, then it just happens naturally, even when you are pressed against the wall.

I would call that the practice of reconnecting with your intention. Intentionality is a chance for you to reconnect with why you are doing this and how. Or, for some, connect for the first time.

Q: Is there anything that you want to share so that I can direct listeners to learn more about you and your research?

Nana aba Duncan: Yes. I would like Black people who live in Halifax, Edmonton, or Montreal to go to reportingblack.com because we're coming to your city to do focus groups. We really want to hear from you about your perception of how the news presents Black people.